Pitching Your Own (Ph)uture With Stephanie Castillo, Jill-of-all-trades

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[00:00:10] Sara Kobilka: Yeah.

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But I was like, hmm, I don't like either of those options. And eventually, three days after crying my eyes out after failing, I was reaching out to my network. And the last conversation that I had one day was with the dean of the graduate school.

I told him about like everything that I was going through and what I was wanting to do. And I was able to pitch my own PhD in science communication through like an interdisciplinary, internal program that they had. And so because I already had like a proof of concept with all the social media work that I did, I was able to get the director of the communication department to be my advisor. And he helped fund pretty much like my PhD in science communication.

(sung) Connecting the Dots with The Renaissance People

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This was the first episode where I had a guest on Stephanie Castillo, who I wouldn't have called a friend prior to the show. Now, that doesn't mean that she was a total unknown to me. I had her actually as a guest on the visual Science Communication seminar series. That I run as part of the class that I teach at the University of Arizona. And like the good journalist that I am, I did my homework ahead of time, which meant listening to episodes, as many as I could, of her own podcast, which we'll talk about a little bit in the show.

So what else did we talk about? Well, we talked about being a Jill-of-all-trades and kind of an icky feeling around the turn generalist. We talked about the need for versatility for science communicators and the bumpy road that Stephanie had to take to go from being a chemistry PhD student to being a science communicator.

We discussed the importance of interdisciplinarity and lifelong learning, curiosity and creativity. We talked about how we communicate across boundaries and how Stephanie connects the dots for scientists who want to use social media. We also got into the idea of having an umbrella term to define yourself when you're been living a life of doing everything.

As well as the wonderful parental support that we both had for experimenting and exploring and having that childhood and young adulthood of doing everything. And Neurodivergence came up again as a theme, as well as identities. So, ready or not, here we go.

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We're gonna jump right into my very first question, which I sent you ahead of time so you could have a little time to think about it. I'm asking everyone who comes on, which term aligns best with your identity? Because I don't wanna push an identity upon you that does not align. So is it Renaissance Person, Man, Woman, pick whatever you choose? Are you a multi-passionate? Would you say you're generalist? Maybe versatilist? Jack-, Jay-, Jill-, whatever of-all-trades? A boundary spanner? Or is there another term that really matches what you do?

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[00:03:48] Sara Kobilka: Ooo! I love this.

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Do you, how do you feel about the term generalist?

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[00:04:42] Stephanie Castillo: Yeah. Yeah. I think that tone, like that gen, like, just, I guess it's gen, you know, like, it just feels like you're not kind of good at it. You're like, I dabble in it. That's like, that's what

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[00:04:57] Stephanie Castillo: mm-hmm.

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No judgment. You'll be really hydrated or not really hydrated by the end of the show. But, it's an article that's talking about the difference between a generalist and a versatilist. And so that's why I added versatilist in there. Because there's like a specialist who's really good at one particular thing or maybe two things.

There's a generalist who is OK at everything. And then like a versatilist who is more like what you were talking about. That Swiss army knife where, you come across the problem, and they got the skillset to solve it. DJ revolve it. Ice, ice. Did you go that way with your head? I immediately thought Ice, Ice Baby.

OK. And there's lots of snow and ice outside, which is, which is what delayed the recording of this. But, Stephanie was so kind to say, I know you have small children who are sledding and taking over your life, so push it back an hour.

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[00:05:57] Sara Kobilka: So back to what you were saying.

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But for me, like Renaissance gives like classically trained, you know. Like I know you mentioned that like, you know, da Vinci is like the ultimate

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[00:06:24] Stephanie Castillo: Renaissance Person as like the go-to example. But I'm like, oh, you know, like he's freaking painted, like Michaelangelo and all them, like they've painted, like they've done like intricate work. I'm like, I don't know if I'm like that.

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And actually, you know what, we'll transition to the next thing because where are you a known quantity? Tell folks about, where do you come from? What sort of things are you known for?

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[00:07:10] Sara Kobilka: That's one of our many areas of overlap. I, I have a lot of those same things too. And I actually found it really interesting as I was brainstorming people to invite, and I know you because you were kind enough to come on the Visual Science Communication Seminar series that I host for the University of Arizona class I teach, Water Whys.

It's so interesting that so many of the first people who came to mind were science communicators. And I feel like there's something about science communication, whether it's making videos, whether it is creating graphics, whatever it is. It really has that left brain, right brain side to it of you have to be able to talk to scientists, you have to understand them. Maybe you have to have a little bit of scientific background to feel comfortable with the vocabulary, methodology, all those things. But then you also have to have that side of your brain where you can think about, what about if I'm not in the sciences, but I still wanna learn about this? Or you wanna make it relevant so they are interested to learn about it.

So it feels like, I don't know. Would you say that most of the science communication folks that you know are somewhat Renaissance Persony?

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You know, like, I want to learn these different software skills so I know how to do these things. And then eventually it just kind of expanded into, just not, not trying to separate the two and being like, oh no, I love the creativity in doing my scientific research. And then how does that creativity expand when you have to talk beyond your technical field?

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[00:09:26] Stephanie Castillo: Yeah,

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[00:09:43] Stephanie Castillo: Yeah. I had a really roundabout way to getting to where I am right now for my career. I essentially wanted to pursue a PhD in chemistry. So like I initially went to grad school to get a technical degree. But I didn't have a good experience. I was in a lab where I loved the research I was doing, loved my lab mates, but I just wasn't really getting the mentoring that I was needing.

And also, the project that I had, just didn't really set me up for success. I really struggled and then, um, some other stuff happened. So eventually ended up like switching to a different lab. And I had a better mentor/advisor, but then I hated the research that I was doing.

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[00:10:26] Stephanie Castillo: And so... yeah, I know. And so while all this is happening you know, imposter syndrome seeps in. Um, I was told by my first advisor when I like, brought up my struggles that like, maybe I should just master out. I should just do my master's, you know, maybe I'm not cut out for the, for the PhD. And I'm like, that's not what I came to grad school for.

Um, and yeah. And so I guess to like try to find my passion and love for like science, again, I turn to social media. I consume like a bunch of YouTube. I'm like chronically online. But while in graduate school I found other graduate students who were talking about their research and sharing their research in like very fun and interesting ways.

And so I was like, oh, I wanna do this. there was a series of videos that I watched where eventually the question was just like, why are there not as many women science communicators on YouTube? And why is there even less like racial or ethnic representation in the science YouTube space?

And eventually found an opportunity called ComSciCon, organized by my friend in the Atlanta, uh, they had like an Atlanta branch. And got accepted into that. It was like a two day science communication workshop for graduate students, ran by graduate students. Our keynote speaker was a science YouTuber that I looked up to.

And so that's when I made the connection that like, oh, these science YouTubers are doing science communication. And science communication is not just like writing articles or like news articles. And even that term, you just think of like science journalism or science writing, and then you have outreach and all these things.

But like the science communication workshop really opened up my eyes to like, oh, like science communication is like a field and there's different subsets of things that you can do, all in the name of just communicating the work that you're doing. And so, yeah, I just went on this creative journey of like, I'm just going to experiment on social media and start producing videos and start making Instagram posts and interviewing my friends.

I sought out various opportunities within my institution to kind of like continue to foster that. And it got to the point where like, I'm doing all this exploration, but I'm supposed to be doing my PhD in chemistry.

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[00:12:39] Stephanie Castillo: Yeah. So when it came time to qualify for candidacy in like the second lab that I was in, um, I failed. I failed because I didn't, I wasn't doing enough research.

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[00:12:51] Stephanie Castillo: And so again, I was posed with the question of just like, well, it seems like you're passionate about science communication. You don't technically need a PhD to do science communication. And you know, it's just gonna be a uphill battle to kind of get you to graduate with your PhD in chemistry.

But I was like, Hmm, I don't like either of those options.

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[00:13:13] Stephanie Castillo: And, and so, I built a huge network of support systems, while I was in graduate school. And eventually, like, you know, three days after crying my eyes out after failing, I eventually was like reaching out to my network. And the last conversation that I had one day was with the dean of the graduate school.

And, um, I told him about like everything that I was going through and what I was wanting to do. And I was able to pitch my own PhD in science communication through like an interdisciplinary, internal program that they had. And so because I already had like a proof of concept with all the social media work that I did, I was able to get the director of the communication department to be my advisor. And he helped fund pretty much like my PhD in science communication.

And so, yeah, I built an interdisciplinary committee of faculty from the digital media, like digital humanities, cinema, media arts, and still kept my chemistry affiliation. And then I have the director of the communication department, and then other scientists who are passionate about science communication on my committee.

And yeah, wrote a dissertation where I got to produce videos and then also study how those videos were perceived. Now produce videos full time.

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But, at the very end you could do like a senior project. I said I wanna do a senior project, but I wanna do it about how are meteorologists communicating about weather events? And specifically, I wanted to know how did people find out about events?

So I was in Madison and the town of Stoughton had had a very large tornado. I'm trying to remember if it was EF 4 or EF 5, very large tornado. We had actually been living in Madison at the time that it happened. And so I got a faculty member from journalism to be one of my advisors, and then I had a faculty member from Atmospheric Science and I walked the streets of Stoughton passing out piece of paper and saying, Hey, how did you find out about the tornado ahead of time? While it was happening? What resource did you use to stay up to date? And I ended up getting all that data and analyzing it. And at that point in time, I was like, OK, folks, well, um, I'm going into the field of broadcast meteorology, but it's dying and it's gonna be replaced by people going on their phones and using social media. And it was really ironic because a number of the faculty members were like, no, no. TV weather's never gonna die. People will not, you know, that won't be replaced by like anything. And then sure enough, a you know, a few years later they're like, oh, oh, maybe that did happen. And it is slightly replaced. So, yeah. Um, it was kind of interesting.

So yeah, I did that same sort of thing of choose your own adventure, pick your own major or your own committee because the thing that you are most interested in it's a collection of things. It's interdisciplinary, it takes knowledge from a lot of different areas and weaves it together. And not everybody has the skills to weave it together.

What do you think about your own background made you really good at that? What made you a strong science storyteller?

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Where I feel like every degree should be interdisciplinary to some extent. You know, I feel like it should just be facilitated a lot better. Because I think like what allowed me to be a little bit more interdisciplinary was the fact that I was like in an interdisciplinary program at the end of the day.

And right now I'm like working with Vanderbilt for one of the departments, their interdisciplinary material science program, where like, again, like they are interdisciplinary in the name. And so like there's students in that program that have like a chemistry background, but they're interested in some physics and so they're able to have both.

And so I feel like, I wish it was more incentivized for people to collaborate or cross collaborate or be more interdisciplinary either across like scientific fields or even within like the humanities and the sciences. Um, and so, yeah, but I think like my background, I don't know, I just, I feel like I've just always been interested in everything.

I'm, I feel like I've just always been like a lifelong learner. I just always like to learn and do different things. And so growing up I tried every sport that I wanted to do. Like I always tried to teach myself how to craft different things. And so I felt like I, I was just always a curious and a tinkerer in the sense of just like, I always wanted to be doing something, so I'll try everything.

And so even now, I finished like a really large, exhausting gig. And I'm like, I'm gonna pick up embroidery. Like why not? Why not?

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[00:18:51] Stephanie Castillo: Exactly. Like I have to just be keeping like my hands and my body busy. And so, yeah, I've talked about this a lot with, one of my old chemistry professors where I was for like my dissertation. One of my questions was just like, oh, can we actually inspire students to get into STEM, you know, through videos? And it's hard to dictate that with just like introducing people to like one video. But my chemistry professor always posed this question. He was just like, well, there's just students who are just like teacher proof.

Like there are just kids that are just naturally born with like curiosity or like tinkering or just wanting to like know more. Versus other students who like, you know, they're not really either encouraged or like introduced to that. Or they don't have the opportunities to like venture into different fields to explore and to experiment. And to foster these curious questions.

And I feel like there is some truth to that. Like, you know, at least compared to my siblings. My siblings hated school. But for me, I'm like, I'm gonna sign up for every class and figure it out. You know, so I'm the, like a first-generation student. And yeah, like the first in my family to even like, make it this far with like a doctorate degree. So...

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But I think that as Renaissance People, we keep that curiosity going. And then in my earlier episode, I talk about like, we have like a childlike curiosity and we're asking questions and we're tinkering and we're wanting to do this stuff because we don't give up on that or we don't succumb to society's desire to beat that out of us.

And I'm the parent of two kids. I've gone through the why phase, and if you've been around like toddlers and preschoolers, they go through that phase where everything is a why. And at some point in time, most of the adults in their lives, some faster than others, get to the, "because I told you so" stage.

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[00:21:01] Sara Kobilka: And we, even, with the way education systems are set up, it's like, be creative, but now you gotta follow structure and now you have to like focus and all that sort of stuff.

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[00:21:15] Sara Kobilka: Yes, I will define creativity.

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[00:21:19] Sara Kobilka: Uh Uh huh! Oh, I'm gonna have to find a link for the show notes of a post where these teachers have been doing something where they are telling children how to color. And they have the three star coloring where they're like, give yourself one to three stars for, I stayed in the lines. I used the correct colors. I did this. And it's like no! Let the kid do what they want. It's coloring. Like who says that's what it's supposed to be? But that is the message that we keep getting. And even like with our science classes, it's, you know, here's this cookbook recipe, especially for the younger grades. Follow this cookbook recipe and then you're gonna get THE right answer. And how dare you question it? How dare you go a different way. If you try a different way of doing it, you're just doing it wrong because there's the right way to do science. And then you get into those real experiences and you realize,

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[00:22:15] Sara Kobilka: Yeah. We're all... it's all front. We have no idea. We're just curious and wanna try this. And, and the ones who question the status quo are the ones who come up with the most innovative ideas.

And also, I had a commissioned lit review for AAAS, the American Association for the Advancement of Science. And what they had me look at was cross-disciplinary research. What's going on with it right now in the world? What is the impact of it on a scientist's career? And how do you actually create a successful collaboration across disciplines. And cross-disciplinary, interdisciplinary, in some cases, transdisciplinary, they're all the buzzwords. And everyone wants to talk about them and be like, yeah, I'm an interdisciplinary scientist. They don't know what that means.

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[00:23:01] Sara Kobilka: They all have their own definitions of what it means. And...

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[00:23:06] Sara Kobilka: Yeah, exactly. I do math. I'm like, Hmm, my, OK, so tangent. My personal thing about STEM. With each of the letters is that the "M", math, is the language of the other three.

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[00:23:21] Sara Kobilka: And there is this aspect of math where it is its own creative thing. But in general, it tends to be like the language of the other three.

So yes, if you're doing science, you're using math because

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[00:23:33] Sara Kobilka: that's the language of how we explain the results of our science.

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[00:23:37] Sara Kobilka: Necessarily make it like the interdisciplinary, bringing thoughts and ideas. And, and having rigorous discussions and disagreeing with each other.

Or figuring out, like, my jargon is different than your jargon. Or I'm using this word differently than you. I'm using the word system to mean this thing. And you're using system to mean this other thing. And you've probably done in your scicomm trainings something where you're talking about the words that you use, the jargon that you use. Because that's one of the big things that people don't realize is that, even when you're talking to someone in another science, you might be speaking a different language than them.

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[00:24:13] Sara Kobilka: And the best, most successful interdisciplinary teams actually like at the beginning sit down and say, let's all get on the same page. Let's all use the same language. Or if we are gonna have disagreements, let's bring that to the forefront and talk about it and say, yes, I'm using this in a different way and I'm not gonna force you, a chemist, to change to the way that atmospheric scientists talk about something.

But at least we've talked about it as opposed to, I'm talking about one thing, you're talking about another, and we think we're both talking about the same thing...

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[00:24:48] Sara Kobilka: Oopsies! Yeah. Do you do trainings where it's a lot of people from multiple disciplines all in the same room? Or do you tend to do trainings where it is people just from like the chemistry department or the physics department?

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So, it's mostly just kind of like, OK, how can the framework of the strategy of science communication or the framework of storytelling lend itself useful for you to communicate your work, either in social media or through videos, regardless of your background.

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[00:26:26] Stephanie Castillo: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There's so much that goes into it too. 'cause even when trying to like formalize what makes like a good video or effective video? Like, it's always gonna be so different depending on like, what story are you even trying to tell in the first place? How much visuals do we want to use? How does sound design or the music changed the way that this message is being received or perceived? How is the scientist or the person in front of the camera presenting themselves? That also changes like the perception of how science, is understood or perceived or whatever.

Like, there's just so many variables that makes it really difficult to kind of like formalize. And even like outside of science communication, since I'm in like the YouTube ecosystem a lot. Like I go to a lot of webinars of just like how to make it as a content creator and in science YouTube. But that's always evolving and changing

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[00:27:13] Stephanie Castillo: Based off of like what people are interested in or who's popular, who isn't popular or...

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[00:27:20] Stephanie Castillo: Exactly.

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[00:27:23] Stephanie Castillo: Exactly, exactly. So there's just like a lot of variables that play into it, but I think ultimately it does borrow, like video production just does borrow with like the tried and true like Hollywood filmmaking 101 types of things.

I think that's what kind of also lended itself for me having to force myself to be like a Jack- or Jill-of-all-trade. Especially as like a freelance science communicator. I'm often just like a one-woman band. And so like I have to film myself. I have to edit myself. I have to pick the music. I have to write the script, fact check this. There's so much skills that go into just producing one video that can just be like a minute long

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[00:28:03] Stephanie Castillo: Exactly! There's so much... Exactly! So much decision making goes into it. And even for those content creators that are just like in their rooms posting. Like it still takes effort and time and planning to make something that's worth people stopping their scroll to like engage with.

And so, like how do we do that at a larger scale for science organizations that are faceless. Or like you're mentioning that like with meteorologists. How do we reach beyond people who just have access to TV networks?

There is a lot that goes into video making. And sometimes it's really hard to kind of like formalize it, but there are like tried and true practices like we do in storytelling. Here's like the basics, but how can we be creative in how we show it that is expression of our own creativity, but still kind of gets our message across?

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[00:29:02] Stephanie Castillo: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Scientists are just like, “hey, I published this research and I think it's great and people should know about it. But I have no idea where to even go from here”. You know? We're not going to present this information through a seminar or like a 30-minute PowerPoint presentation. Like, this is not going to work.

So how can I either facilitate, by either producing it for them, or like consulting with them on it? Science organizations are a little bit different in terms of, you know, usually larger organizations or institutions have a communications department, so they know what they wanna say. But sometimes they have to outsource the actual production or the actual, like, editing or maybe they just don't have the personnel to like actually go through with producing some kind of like multimedia aspect of like, the research that they want to highlight for their institution.

And so that's where like I would step in as either the person that does it or can consult to them and tell them like, OK, this is how you would think about it. This is the strengths in the research of your institution. This is the main impact that you're trying to demonstrate. And here's how you would do it.

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Are they realizing that YouTube video production for social media in general, is a really viable and maybe a direction that they should be focusing more of their energy to reach this nebulous public that they say that they want to communicate with?

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And so like, yes, there might be this nebulous goal of like knowing that we need to be talking outside of these silos to bridge the gap and bridge, you know, start rebuilding the bridge to have trust in science. But they're not putting their money where their mouth is. So they're like, we want to do all these things, but like, oh, it's gonna cost that much to do videos. Or, oh, it's gonna cost that much to hire a specific science communicator to do this. Or you know, do we actually have the budget to hire like an on-staff person to like be the designated person to do this? I feel like that's the conversation that's missing. It takes a lot of effort. It takes a lot of work and it takes a lot of like intentionality to produce these resources, to produce connections with communities that are impacted by your work. And to like really either market or target the specific audiences that would benefit or matter the most listening to the science that these organizations are doing.

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[00:32:22] Stephanie Castillo: Um, off the top of my head, I can't say right now.

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[00:32:34] Stephanie Castillo: Yeah, so like I think another pain point is that like there are a lot of independent content creators or science communicators that are like really putting in the work to be like that anchor, to be that community builder, to like facilitate these conversations and reach people through the engaging storytelling that they're doing.

There's so many out there that do it. But at the same time, uh, yeah, let me think a little bit.

We're also limited on like how well or effective we do based on what the platforms that we use to like really evaluate whether or not this is effective. It's just very qualitative data of just like, I see they commented a lot. I've get people that message me, but we don't really know if like we changed people's minds or that we changed perceptions or we actually made a difference unless we're told directly. So it's kind of hard to say even at the individual level of these science communicators that are on social media.

But there are many that do wonderful work. I feel like I still kind of miss the gap of like seeing an institution that like really does it well. But I maybe there is, I just don't know yet. Or I just, I'm not remembering it at the top of my head right now.

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[00:34:38] Stephanie Castillo: Yeah.

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So we'll get all that stuff because I know people are always looking for fun ways to, instead of just like mindlessly scroll, maybe turn their brain on a little bit the scrolling process.

Well, I'm gonna pivot us a little bit. So now you're, you're the Swiss Army knife. You got all these skills. How do you explain who you've become, this multifaceted person with all these different skills and strengths, to somebody when it's like a, a networking event. You just meet them and they're like, so what do you do? How do you keep your complexity yet explain yourself in such a way that they can handle you.

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[00:36:06] Sara Kobilka: Nice. I wonder how many people think of a particular Broadway show with Matthew Broderick when they hear producer. That's where my brain goes. 'cause I'm a musical theater nerd, but...

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[00:36:16] Sara Kobilka: I wonder about, like, for somebody who doesn't have a background in like how videos come to life, is producer jargon to them? And they...

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[00:36:27] Sara Kobilka: ...don't know what it means and do you try to use it as a collect all thing and they're like. OK, so you've like raised the money to make the videos? And you're like, oh, now I still have to explain myself.

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[00:37:11] Sara Kobilka: And there's that word creative coming back in

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[00:37:14] Sara Kobilka: as like...

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[00:37:15] Sara Kobilka: a unifying theme. When you think about the theme of your life, the golden thread that winds through all of it is like creativity and creating something that you've always been doing as you've been this tinkering, curious person who is a lifelong learner?

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I really dunno how to answer this question just in the sense of like, I chose chemistry out of like the process of elimination, you know, like of like, of all the classes I took in high school.

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[00:38:02] Stephanie Castillo: Yeah, exactly. Like chemistry was the best one. I watched a movie and I don't know if you ever watched Contagion?

Like, oh my God. I wanna be that. And then I like thought I was doing biochemistry, but I wasn't, I was actually just doing chemistry. So I just graduated with like chemistry. And then, as like a first-generation student, again, I just always went outta my way to just like, how do I continue to like level up in whatever way I can?

And so I always just saw opportunities to just like, help me because like my family doesn't know how to navigate academia, so I'm just gonna find ways that I could. There was like a weekend for transfer students before going into university where there was like, do you know what research is? Let's introduce you to research.

And so I was like, OK, that sounds cool. Let me go and do like, go to this weekend thing. And that's what I learned about like the McNair program, which helped first generation low-income students to like get into research and also to pursue graduate school.

And so like, I was kind of like gr not groomed in a bad way, but just kind of like, OK, this is what I'm gonna do now I'm just gonna focus on this. But in the meantime, while like I'm still doing academia, I was a gymnast. I trained gymnastics. I trained young students, teaching gymnastics and trampoline. And I loved photography and just did photography for fun. Like I just did whatever I wanted. But I never felt like I was always a creative person. I was just like, I just like doing everything, so I'm gonna do everything.

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[00:39:29] Stephanie Castillo: Yeah.

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And one of the things we talked about was Neurodivergence. And the question that I asked her was, you know, do you think that there's, maybe it's not a Venn diagram that has become a circle, but it's a highly overlapping Venn diagram between people who are neurodivergent and people who are Renaissance People.

Because when somebody in particular, like with ADHD, they wanna be doing a lot of stuff. They're curious people. They wanna ask a lot of those questions. And I know a lot of my friends who I would define as being Renaissance People I happen to know that they are also neurospicy in, in some sort of way. That makes you that, that gives you that drive, that curiosity that, I'm not gonna let the world tell me that it's too much to be a gymnast and a photographer and a chemist. Screw that. I'm gonna do it. Like, I don't care. I'm curious.

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[00:40:55] Sara Kobilka: Yes.

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They're like, oh, now we're all 40-year-olds, like being like autistic or whatever. But you know, sometimes, when I see those, like for like neurodivergence. Maybe this is my lack of, like, more of my ignorance coming in, of just like, sometimes there's like negative connotations. There's just like, oh, you're not able to focus or start or finish things. Or like, you are interested in multiple things because you have like executive disfunction. You know, like, so I feel like there's like struggles that come with like neurodivergence that I feel like I don't experience. But again, like that's probably like my lack of awareness, like to know what that means or not.

But I honestly, I think I was just lucky and privileged enough that I grew up with parents that like really worked hard to allow me the opportunity to experiment and always be exploring. And just to foster of just like, oh, you're interested in this? Let's buy you this thing. Like if you're interested in that, let's get you into these classes. Oh, you don't wanna do cheerleading anymore? You wanna do soccer? OK, let's get you into soccer. Like, they just really fostered that. And so I think I just grew up in an environment where I was able to always explore and want to learn. I just, yeah, I just grew up in a really cultivated environment and fostering environment that I think I just had the opportunity to just know that I don't have to be bound to just doing one thing.

[: 00:42:08

[00:42:30] Stephanie Castillo: hmm.

[: 00:42:31

[00:42:59] Stephanie Castillo: Mm-hmm.

[: 00:43:00

[00:43:25] Stephanie Castillo: Yeah. Yeah. I was like doing a career panel last night. And that was like one of the things too of just, what my training as like a gymnast helped in terms of like, oh, I failed on this thing? I have to just get back up and try again. Like, oh, I couldn't figure out this skill. Like I gotta get back and like try again. Oh, I fell on my head. Ouch. That hurts. And let me cry about it. But also like, I need to compete in like two weeks. I need to get this thing done. So like, let me try again. And so I think that also helped with my training as a scientist where scientist is all about learning from failures in order to get to answer whatever hypothesis or question that we have.

And it's just also knowing when to pivot. It's just like, oh, no one can help me with this thing. How do I help myself? And, oh, I liked photography and I love YouTube. It's probably the same thing. Let me just pick up a camera and learn how to, like video edit. You know? Like, it's just comes from a place of just like, I can figure it out. And I'm going to figure it out. And if I don't how to do that thing, I'm gonna teach myself how to do it because we have YouTube and I'll figure it out.

[: 00:44:22

[00:44:35] Stephanie Castillo: Mm-hmm.

[: 00:44:35

[00:44:39] Stephanie Castillo: Yeah.

[: 00:44:39

I might have to do some pivots and turns and like ask a few favors, but it's gonna happen.

[: 00:44:49

[00:44:49] Sara Kobilka: So. Oh, fun.

[: 00:44:52

[00:44:52] Sara Kobilka: Well, I wanted, speaking of fun things, would you like to play a game? OK. OK. So we'll do the one that you've heard me do before, so maybe you've been thinking about it, which is we're gonna complete the sentence, you know you're a Renaissance Person if.... and I'm gonna go first and then I'll let you go second. So, you know, you're a Renaissance Person if would much rather answer a question that has, check as many boxes as you want versus a multiple-choice question.

[: 00:45:23

[00:45:28] Sara Kobilka: This is true improv then. That's what I wanted it to be.

[: 00:45:31

[00:45:37] Sara Kobilka: Yes. Yep. Yep. You are. I forget if it was the last episode or previous one where someone, was it me? I don't know who said it. Um, where I

[: 00:45:46

[00:45:48] Sara Kobilka: I'm so brilliant. Uh, I said, you're a walking Venn diagram.

[: 00:45:52

[00:45:53] Sara Kobilka: And you have all these overlapping different things that you can be.

Oh, should we try it again?

Now I

[: 00:45:59

[: 00:46:02

[00:46:02] Stephanie Castillo: I did a lot of research with like identities. But I've been thinking about identities a lot too in terms of, you know, you mentioned that you're a perfectionist. As someone who's like high academic achieving, like we have those kind of qualities of just, um perfectionism. Like wanting to do stuff. But because there is failure that happens of how do I not tie my identity to like what I do? And so instead of just saying like, oh, I am a producer, I am this or that, just like, I produce like I do this thing, I do that thing. Rather than saying I am that thing. Just to kind of like help separate. So it's just like I do a lot of different things. I'm not just one thing, you know?

[: 00:46:42

[00:47:50] Stephanie Castillo: Yeah, yeah.

[: 00:47:50

[00:47:53] Stephanie Castillo: Yeah. Like even with like science communication, like sometimes I felt the imposter syndrome of just like, well, I'm no longer a scientist. Like am I no longer a science communicator? Or, or, I find myself comparing myself to like other content creators or science communicators that are content creators of, like, they love to talk about science, but I'm like, honestly, like the reality is like, I love the field of science, but I'm not the kind of person that's like passionate to like always be talking about science. But I help you facilitate that. Like I can be the facilitator to like help you do that.

[: 00:48:26

[00:48:31] Stephanie Castillo: Exactly.

[: 00:48:33

[00:48:37] Stephanie Castillo: Yeah. Yeah.

[: 00:48:38

[00:48:40] Stephanie Castillo: Exactly. Exactly.

[: 00:48:42

[00:49:00] Stephanie Castillo: But it still has to be a profession?

[: 00:49:02

[00:49:02] Stephanie Castillo: yeah, I don't know. I guess I, I can only think of like an athlete, like an athletic person of just like...

[: 00:49:07

[00:49:18] Stephanie Castillo: Yeah. I think my LinkedIn is just very much like. Hire me to do all your video, your science producing stuff. And so yeah, I, yeah. I do jujitsu, I do rock climbing. So I feel like I have like some athleticness still in me ever since I, I no longer can do gymnastics. Um, yeah, I don't know. I don't know any other skills.

[: 00:49:40

[00:49:48] Rapish Fire Questions

[: 00:49:48

[00:50:12] Stephanie Castillo: I borrowed this or took it essentially from like another science communication, interview I did with another science communicator, of just like, how do we foster a new ecosystem to better communicate science? And so, yeah, she used a meadow and I really been using that a lot. Your of, like the meadow like you're mentioning with like the garden. We have bees that can go from like flower to flower to start pollinating. But not everyone is a worker bee. People are just the flowers. People are just like the ants. Like there is a clear communication and clear rules of how we're able to like, go from place to place.

And so like, how do we create that like really diverse meadow to foster a better ecosystem to communicate science. And so, um, yeah. Ever since that interview, I've really like resonated with that and have been using that as like an ethos or guiding point to continue on like what I wanna do for my career and for work.

[: 00:51:06

Another one that I love is, this is in contrast to the STEM pipeline, which I hate as a term. I think it's super limiting. There's only one way in and one way at all, that sort of stuff. Uh, and somebody had, I'll put it in the show notes. Um, there is an article about using a braided river as a metaphor for STEM careers. And you go off on a side path and then you come back together and it's wider in some spots and thinner in others.

And that's another metaphor that's really stood out to me. And again, it's nature, that theme of nature comes through quite a bit.

You already mentioned rabbit holes, and that's another one of my questions. What is one rabbit hole that you've gone down recently?

[: 00:52:02

[00:52:17] Sara Kobilka: And it comes from the heart so it's worth more!

[: 00:52:18

And then, the year before that, I did like digital art. And then this year I'm like, yeah, I'm just gonna do embroidery, but like, it's turned to be a lot harder. I'm also the kind of person that sometimes when I'm not good at something right away I'm like, I don't wanna do this anymore. But I'm like, uh, I'm already committed. I'm down this rabbit hole. So I'm like literally looking up. I have friends who like sent me like, um, an instructables of just like how to do the best satin stitch, you know, like,

[: 00:52:51

[00:52:51] Stephanie Castillo: So I'm deep in that rabbit hole right now.

[: 00:52:54

[00:52:56] Stephanie Castillo: Hundred percent. I, I literally got a tiny little thing. I'm like, they're just gonna get a flower, you know, like…

[: 00:53:04

[00:53:16] Stephanie Castillo: yeah.

[: 00:53:16

Well, here's my last question.

What's... well we kind of answered this, but maybe there's something else in there. What's something from your background that might surprise people beyond the fact that you are an athlete? A gymnast trampoline is actually one of my favorite things to watch during the Olympics. Like I'm so impressed. And there's physics!

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[00:53:40] Sara Kobilka: Are you gonna make a like an Olympics physics video on trampoline? Because I would be there for that.

[: 00:53:46

[00:53:50] Sara Kobilka: I have connections at NBC if you want...

[: 00:53:53

So I'm gonna take that.

[: 00:54:14

You are available on social media. You're on multiple platforms. What's the best way for people who want to follow you, see your amazing videos, learn about your work?

[: 00:54:28

[00:54:50] Sara Kobilka: You're like the chef who, when they come home, they're like, I don't wanna make a fancy dinner for myself. I'm gonna have a sandwich.

sandwich

[: 00:54:55

[00:54:58] Sara Kobilka: Well maybe you share good stuff.

[: 00:55:00

[00:55:06] Sara Kobilka: Do you share a lot of good stuff though? Like should people follow you just to see the cool stuff you share?

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[00:55:23] Sara Kobilka: Oh, sad. Well, just make one post with all the cool people to follow and then be like sayonara suckers, I'm outta here!

[: 00:55:28

[00:55:31] Sara Kobilka: Well, thank you so much for taking the time to do this and your flexibility with all of my winter weather, chaos, and small children, and this was super fun. I wish you the very best. You also have your own podcast though. So for any science folks who like a spicy hot take, do you wanna tell them a little bit about that?

[: 00:55:48

And yeah, we just gossip about the good and bad ways that sciences communicated online. And so it's called SciComm Hotline. We upload when we can. 'cause this is just mostly a creative outlet for us just to purposefully hang out. Um, but yeah, give us a follow and a listen. That'd be great.

But thank you so much, Sara. This was so fun to, to connect with you.

[: 00:56:24

[00:56:25] Stephanie Castillo: Thanks.

(sung) Connecting the Dots with The Renaissance People